Question: Hardness and TL

[macd21]

So on page 283 of the player's guide it notes that most melee weapons tend to have the 'Hard' quality at TL 5. Does this include vibro or shocker weapons? If you buy a shock war sword do you effectively get a weapon with both the shock and hard qualities for +30fb?

[Angelman]

Hm.... I think you've found a loophole there.

Actually, since vibro weapons have loose blades that "rattle" to cause the effect, I would rule that they can't also be hard. Does that make sense?

As for shockers, I can't think of any reason why a weapon couldn't be both Hard and have a built-in taser...

In any case, you need to pay the additional TL-upgrade costs for most melee weapons to get them to TL5.

Hm... thougths

[macd21]

In any case, you need to pay the additional TL-upgrade costs for most melee weapons to get them to TL5.

Hm... thougths

Yeah, I guess I'm kinda confused as to how the upgrades (like shocker) are meant to be applied. If you purchase a shocker war sword on a TL 5 planet, is it 50 fb (20 for a war sword + 30 for shocker) and does it count as a TL 5 weapon (and therefore have the hard quality)? Or would you pay 110 (20 for the war sword x4 for a +3 TL adjustment and +30 for shocker)? And would you realistically ever come across a shock blade that wasn't also a hard blade - someone constructing such a weapon would be unlikely to use TL 5 manufacturing techniques for the shock equipment, while forging the blade in a TL 2 smithy.

I wouldn't really have a problem with a vibro blade with the hard quality due to improved TL, while it may be 'loose,' it would still be made with superior materials and a sharper edge. And if you don't allow the two to work together, vibro becomes useless - if you can choose between having the Hard quality and the vibro ability, you're probably going to choose Hard.

[Angelman]

Good points! To be honest, it's been... almost four years since I last worked on these rules, and I can't quite remember how I envisioned everything to hang together. Back then, I thought it was quite well put together (for the time we had to do it), but there are bound to be logic cavities and loopholes therein. It is difficult to make simple over-reaching rules that stay consistant and relevant for 40 different settings (i.e. 40 worlds, each with their own social, cultural, economic, and technological situation), and in the end the GM must decide how to apply the rules in any given situation.

Much of the question have to do with definition of what "Hard weapons" are, and the like.

How would you run with this, macd21?

[macd21]

I suppose I'd go with the (IMO) simplest option - if you get a vibro or shock weapon (paying the +30 or +100), you can take it that you 're buying a TL 5 weapon and get the Hard quality as well. The only real issue with this is that it technically makes a TL 5 shock blade cheaper than a TL 5 blade (base price +30 vs base price x4, which will usually result in prices of 50 and 80 respectively), but I don't think that's a big deal.

[Angelman]

What about allowing both "upgrades", for the most expensive option?

[macd21]

You mean charge for example 110 (20 x4 to bring it up to TL 5 and get Hard + 30 for shock)? That'd work as well, I think my only real problem with it is the way it's presented in the book makes that a non-intuitive approach, whereas I think it's more likely for shock and vibro weapons (being TL 5) to have the Hard quality by default.