ED4 Fifth Circle Wizard Spell: Giant Size

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Baravakar
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ED4 Fifth Circle Wizard Spell: Giant Size

Postby Baravakar » Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:21 pm

I think there is something missing from this sentence:
    If successful, the target immediately grows 50percent larger than his normal size, gaining a +4 bonus to Strength-only, Toughness-only, and Damage tests during the spell’s duration.
What is the effect of gaining a +4 to Strength-only /Toughness-only?
Is this a legacy phrase left over from previous editions?

If this is +4 steps to STR doesn't that also increase physical damage by +4 steps?
Making it +8.

The spell improves all damage tests, doesn't this also then improve spell casting damage?
Mind Dagger is a WIL+2 damage test, Giant Size on a wizard makes Mind Dagger WIL+6.

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Tattered Rags
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Re: ED4 Fifth Circle Wizard Spell: Giant Size

Postby Tattered Rags » Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:29 pm

It's +4 to strength-only tests, toughness-only tests, and damage tests. Not a +4 to strength or toughness.

Damage from spells are determined by Effect Tests, not Damage Tests. Damage Tests are for Melee, Thrown, and Missile Weapon attacks and other similar things.

Relevant passage is on page 269 of the Player's Guide.
Effect
A spell’s effect depends on the spell. The most common effect is used to deter-mine a value, like the amount of damage dealt. When a spell requires a magician to make an Effect test, the Step number used for the test will be given. For example, “WIL+5” indicates the caster uses his Willpower Step +5 for the Effect test.

Baravakar
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Re: ED4 Fifth Circle Wizard Spell: Giant Size

Postby Baravakar » Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:24 pm

Tattered Rags wrote:Relevant passage is on page 269 of the Player's Guide.
Effect
A spell’s effect depends on the spell. The most common effect is used to deter-mine a value, like the amount of damage dealt. When a spell requires a magician to make an Effect test, the Step number used for the test will be given. For example, “WIL+5” indicates the caster uses his Willpower Step +5 for the Effect test.


Please don't forget to read Player's Guide pg: 379
    Regardless of whether the attack is made with a weapon or a spell, the Damage test result determines the number of damage points inflicted on the target.

The spell effect test for damage is a damage test.
The effect of Giant Size improves all damage tests, therefore it affects spell damage also. Big Head = Bigger Mind Dagger.

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Mataxes
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Re: ED4 Fifth Circle Wizard Spell: Giant Size

Postby Mataxes » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:10 pm

The language could be clearer (and part of that is a legacy of the ED3 wording). Given that we have drastically reduced the role of "Attribute-only" tests in ED4, the "only" part of the description isn't really relevant. It should be:

...gaining a +4 bonus to Stength- and Toughness-based tests, which includes Strength-based Damage tests.
Josh Harrison -- The Lore Merchant
Troubadour and Magic Theorist
Line Developer: Earthdawn

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Tattered Rags
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Re: ED4 Fifth Circle Wizard Spell: Giant Size

Postby Tattered Rags » Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:17 pm

Mataxes wrote:The language could be clearer (and part of that is a legacy of the ED3 wording). Given that we have drastically reduced the role of "Attribute-only" tests in ED4, the "only" part of the description isn't really relevant. It should be:

...gaining a +4 bonus to Stength- and Toughness-based tests, which includes Strength-based Damage tests.


Ah, so I got the intent right, but I still missed all of the other things that would have benefited. Good to know.

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Mataxes
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Re: ED4 Fifth Circle Wizard Spell: Giant Size

Postby Mataxes » Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:07 pm

As an aside (and look into the history of such things), the original version of the spell from Arcane Mysteries of Barsaive "adds +5 steps to Strength and Toughness for the duration of the spell."

While in one sense the intent there is clearer, and melee/ranged combat damage should go up as a result, how does the spell affect a characters's health ratings? With a +5 steps to Toughness they perhaps should go up...

It was the Classic edition that introduced the Attribute-only limit to the bonuses, one of many places where we made changes to limit stacking bonuses and trying to keep combat damage steps down. ED3 kept that in place.
Josh Harrison -- The Lore Merchant
Troubadour and Magic Theorist
Line Developer: Earthdawn

emeketos
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Re: ED4 Fifth Circle Wizard Spell: Giant Size

Postby emeketos » Thu May 12, 2016 9:50 am

odd point is due to wording +4 Strength test only means the spell does not increase carry cap. but it does say help someone kick open a door (strength based test)


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