[ED4] Journeyman conversion

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szuzzz
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[ED4] Journeyman conversion

Postby szuzzz » Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:57 am

Hi,

I'm working on converting my team from 3rd to 4th edition and everything is going smooth except for one thing - I have a player who is 5th Circle Journeyman from Namegivers Book. Do you have any idea how to handle his Circle bonuses and Karma abilities? Maybe there is someone who already went through this kind of conversion and have some advice?

Drall
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Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:56 am

Re: [ED4] Journeyman conversion

Postby Drall » Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:38 am

Looking over the Disciplines in 4th Edition, the Circle Bonuses to Defences is fairly standardised;

Each Discipline gains a +1 Bonus to a Defence at 2nd Circle, another +1 Bonus to a different Defence at 4th Circle, then at 6th Circle the bonus from 2nd increases by 1 (to +2) and then again at 8th Circle to +3.

Air Sailor for example:
Second Circle: +1 Physical Defence
Fourth Circle: +1 Social Defence
Sixth Circle: +2 Physical Defence
Eighth Circle: +3 Physical Defence

For Journeyman I would keep the choice of Defence up to the player, as it is in 3rd Edition and simply follow the above pattern; so if your player chose +1 Social Defence at 2nd Circle, when he reaches 6th Circle his Social Defence bonus will now be +2 and then +3 at 8th Circle.

Karma uses on specific tests comes at 3rd and 5th Circle and a special bonus comes at 7th Circle.

Most of the 3rd and 5th Circle Karma use is also fairly standardised, but some are unique (mainly the Magician Disciplines)

Available at 3rd Circle
Karma on Recovery Tests
Karma on Initiative Tests
Karma on Interaction Tests
Karma on a Test against Horrors, Horror Constructs and Undead (one per round)
Karma point to recall information

Available at 5th Circle
Karma on a specific Damage Test (close combat, ranged combat, whilst charging on a mount, against surprised opponents)
Karma point to add to another character's tests by offering encouragement
Karma point to change the range of a self spell to touch
Karma point to add +2 to the Effect Test of a Spell
Karma point to increase the penalty of a spell by 2
Karma to add an additional ally target to a spell

So, for a Journeyman it makes sense that they can choose which of the above Karma uses they gain at 3rd and 5th circle; a Journeyman who hunts Horrors may have the Karma on Tests against Horrors for example.

I would say personally that the Journeyman is free to pick the 3rd Circle Karma use (maybe with the exception of the Horror one) but the 5th Circle one may require training/observation of the Discipline that usually earns that Karma bonus, it's your choice really.

At 7th Circle, the Disciplines gain a +1 Step Bonus to Initiative, an additional Recovery Test or +1 Mystic Armour.

Again, fairly standardised; most Disciplines gain the Initiative or Recovery Test bonus whilst the Weaponsmith and most of the Magicians gain the Mystic Armour bonus.
I would permit the Journeyman to choose which of these Bonuses they want; in my experience I think most will choose the the Recovery Test.

In addition to all the bonuses listed above; each Discipline gains a funky little ability unique to them at 5th; seeing as the 5th Circle ability for Journeyman in 3rd edition is no longer relevant (as the distinction between Discipline Talent and Talent Option no longer limits Karma use) you may need to come up with your own ability here.

I'm only covering up to 8th Circle here as thats where 4th Edition currently stands; but I hope this helps with your own conversion.

Apart from that; obviously Karma Ritual is no longer a Talent; I would give Journeyman a Durability of 5 and they gain Threadweaving at 1st Circle like everyone else.

Drall
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Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:56 am

Re: [ED4] Journeyman conversion

Postby Drall » Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:46 am

Sorry just to add; I think if i was to convert the Journeyman to 4th Edition I would give them Morphism at 5th Circle as described in 3rd edition but limit it to the following:

Low Light Vision
Heat Sight
Strong Back

And then give them Morphism at 9th and allow the following

Astral Sight
Increased Wound Threshold
Natural Armour.

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etherial
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Re: [ED4] Journeyman conversion

Postby etherial » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:07 am

Drall wrote:For Journeyman I would keep the choice of Defence up to the player, as it is in 3rd Edition and simply follow the above pattern; so if your player chose +1 Social Defence at 2nd Circle, when he reaches 6th Circle his Social Defence bonus will now be +2 and then +3 at 8th Circle.


Note that Swordmasters get +2 Physical/+2 Social in order to support both the Bladesman and the Gallant, so there is precedent for going +2/+2 instead of +3/+1.

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Tattered Rags
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Re: [ED4] Journeyman conversion

Postby Tattered Rags » Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:26 pm

etherial wrote:
Drall wrote:For Journeyman I would keep the choice of Defence up to the player, as it is in 3rd Edition and simply follow the above pattern; so if your player chose +1 Social Defence at 2nd Circle, when he reaches 6th Circle his Social Defence bonus will now be +2 and then +3 at 8th Circle.


Note that Swordmasters get +2 Physical/+2 Social in order to support both the Bladesman and the Gallant, so there is precedent for going +2/+2 instead of +3/+1.


Considering the trope that the Journeyman represents, why not let them just add +1 to any defense at each level choice?

Drall
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Re: [ED4] Journeyman conversion

Postby Drall » Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:07 am

etherial wrote:
Drall wrote:For Journeyman I would keep the choice of Defence up to the player, as it is in 3rd Edition and simply follow the above pattern; so if your player chose +1 Social Defence at 2nd Circle, when he reaches 6th Circle his Social Defence bonus will now be +2 and then +3 at 8th Circle.


Note that Swordmasters get +2 Physical/+2 Social in order to support both the Bladesman and the Gallant, so there is precedent for going +2/+2 instead of +3/+1.


I think any of the three options would suit the Journeyman, I quite like the +2/+2 as it's the middle ground between the +1/+3 and the +1 to whichever Defence you want.

I guess it's down to the GM's preference.

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etherial
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Re: [ED4] Journeyman conversion

Postby etherial » Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:39 am

Drall wrote:
etherial wrote:
Drall wrote:For Journeyman I would keep the choice of Defence up to the player, as it is in 3rd Edition and simply follow the above pattern; so if your player chose +1 Social Defence at 2nd Circle, when he reaches 6th Circle his Social Defence bonus will now be +2 and then +3 at 8th Circle.


Note that Swordmasters get +2 Physical/+2 Social in order to support both the Bladesman and the Gallant, so there is precedent for going +2/+2 instead of +3/+1.


I think any of the three options would suit the Journeyman, I quite like the +2/+2 as it's the middle ground between the +1/+3 and the +1 to whichever Defence you want.

I guess it's down to the GM's preference.


I think the Fourth Circle Ability should say "The adept adds +1 to any Defense except the one they picked at Second Circle" so that +3/+1, +2/+2, and +2/+1/+1 are all options, but +4/+0 isn't.

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Spader
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Re: [ED4] Journeyman conversion

Postby Spader » Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:16 pm

A few months ago I've put some ideas in an excel sheet for journeyman 4th edition.

Here's what I have for now:

Circle 1
Talents: Thread Weaving (Journey Weaving) plus any five talent of novice level.
Ability: Learn from skills: Journeymen may auto learn any talent based on a skill he/she already knows as their discipline talent. Even skills which don't have a talent equivalent. But those talents cannot be thought to anyone.
Karma ability: May spend karma on any interaction test made to blend in a group or culture
Durability: 5

Circle 2
Talents: Any two of novice level
Defense: +1 to any defense

Circle 3
Talents: Any two of novice level
Bonus: One choice between: Karma on Initiative tests, Karma on Recovery Tests or +1 to Initiative tests

Circle 4
Talents: Any two of novice level
Defense: +1 Any Defense but the one from Circle 2

Circle 5
Talents: Any two of journeyman level
Abilities: Morph Weaving: For 2 strains, a Journeyman may use his Thread Weaving Talent as if it was one of another discipline he already knows at least one talent from. It can be used for the purpose of using a knack reserved for a specific discipline or a specific set of disciplines or it can be used to weave spell threads of a perticular discipline. If used this way, the Journeyman's circle is considered four circle lower for the purpose of casting spells except for defining the highest spell circle he can matrix cast. He can still cast spells up to his current circle. This will mostly effect the number of extra threads he can put into his spells.
Karma ability: Any knowledge test based on racial cultures or discipline knowledge

Circle 6
Talents: Any two of journeyman level
Defense: +1 to the remaining defense

Circle 7
Talents: Any two of journeyman level
Bonus: One choice between: Karma on Initiative tests, Karma on Recovery Tests, +1 to Initiative tests, +1 Recovery Test per day or +1 to Mystic Armor. Must be different than 3rd circle

Circle 8
Talents: Any two of journeyman level
Abilities: +2 to any Defense.

To be in tune with the fourth edition mindset, the Journeyman would have to be a discipline available to any race. Personnaly I would have no problem with that.


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