Windling flight while in combat (4th edition)

Discussion on game mastering Earthdawn. May contain spoilers; caution is recommended!
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Re: Windling flight while in combat (4th edition)

Postby etherial » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:17 am


varrow
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Re: Windling flight while in combat (4th edition)

Postby varrow » Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:15 pm

[/quote]

Am I reading correctly that you are applying this only to Windlings and not to any other flying creatures?[/quote]

No. In my view this should to apply this to any flying creature from Windling to Great dragon. Unless the creature description shows some specific rule exemption in it. I probably just kept using Windling as an example too much.

I am probably just being too realistic for the rule system, but I like added touches of realism where it makes sense, and I know my players will demand it when cause and effect or other forms of basic physics not covered or correctly modeled in the rules is to their advantage. Sometimes they can not have it both ways.

The way I see it any hovering flying creature is constantly expending movement effort to counter the constant pull of gravity and this is movement regardless of any vertical or horizontal distance moved. If at any moment that effort ceases (or is prevented from an outside source) they will fall. My application of the split movement rule is to show that this effort is continuing during the attack and it also neatly model the added cost of doing two complex and strenuous activities simultaneously.

I could go on at length about drawing other movement and action comparisons and giving increasingly ridiculous scenarios but I do not see the point. I will simply make sure all my players understand that this is how performing actions while moving (in this case flying) will work.

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Re: Windling flight while in combat (4th edition)

Postby Telarus_KSC » Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:36 pm

I would expect to see a lot of stabbed feet, as the Windlings land before they attack, or take off after their attack. :)

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Re: Windling flight while in combat (4th edition)

Postby Tattered Rags » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:56 pm

varrow, when a human warrior is engaged in melee with a dwarf swordmaster, do they stand still until it's their turn to swing their weapon?

Pause and think about that and answer it (either to yourself or on here) before reading on.



I asked the question because the intent is that combatants are constantly moving. They're dodging, ducking, dipping, diving, and dodging, all to avoid being hit and make it easier to hit their opponent. The rules are meant to simulate this constant motion. Each roll of Melee Weapons could easily represent several swings of a sword.

I don't see a Windling hovering as much different. They likely aren't even really hovering in one spot, but they are instead zipping about over a small distance, equivalent to the distance a human covers when engaged in melee. That entire distance fits inside a hex or square or other grid on a map; it's a Move distance of 0.

In combat EVERYBODY is moving, but not everyone is Moving. And a Windling that stays in melee range likely isn't exerting his or her little body any more than a dwarf would be.

Sure, they have to rest after 20(?) minutes of flying (is that the right amount?). A fight is over in less than 1, though. And the actual fighting is probably more tiring than the flying.

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Re: Windling flight while in combat (4th edition)

Postby varrow » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:02 am


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Re: Windling flight while in combat (4th edition)

Postby Telarus_KSC » Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:21 am


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Re: Windling flight while in combat (4th edition)

Postby varrow » Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:34 am

Yes, I am probably sorting this type of thing out backwards to most people. But I know my players, and rule interpretations need to be nailed down from the start and then applies consistently for everyone to be happy.

I am quite familiar with how windling flight can affect a game.

I GM'ed Earthdawn for many years, but that was over 10+ years ago and that was mostly in 1st Edition (with some looking at 2nd and 3rd). Back then I interpreted flight (not just windling flight) in exactly the same and worked very well and no one had a problem then. Since a family member recently received her kickstarter copies of the 4th my old group has requested me to consider running Earthdawn again. In truth I have only one player arguing any different interpretation (he is playing a Windling for the first time with delusions aerial combat domination and constant tactical invulnerability melee combat encounters) but the other 5 (3 of them also playing windlings) either agree with my interpretation or are not voicing an opinion either way, so long as it is decided and applied consistently from the start.

This discussion was been very useful for me to clarify my thinking and interpretation. It has not greatly changed it, but it has helped me renew my understanding of the entire rules system. I don't think my "disappointed" player is really that disappointed he just mostly enjoys arguing for advantage on principle.

I have pointed out to him that the 3rd Edition versions (which I gather is meant to be compatible with 4th at least as a temporary measure) of Windmaster has a 5th circle ability "Dive Mastery" that I will accept as a specific rule exception to the harried penalty (but not the strain) of splitting movement while flying, and that I will also accept "Wing Mastery" available to 13th circle Winddancer, Windmasters and Windscouts as a specific rule exception to the strain requirement (but not the harried) of splitting movement while flying. So all he needs to do is become a 13th circle Windmaster to perform split movement attacks while flying with no penalty. I think this is a feat appropriate to such a power heroic character, but not to every common non-adept Windling (or other flying creature) in world.

It does make me wonder why these abilities are there if it was not meant to be interpreted this way. Either way I feel my group has concluded their clarifications on the nature of aerial combat as a whole, and I must now turn my attentions to the esoteric nature of the elven paths and also what it means to be a lowland troll in Bartertown.


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