Does passing through an "area denial" spell trigger damage?

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ChrisDDickey
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Does passing through an "area denial" spell trigger damage?

Postby ChrisDDickey » Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:13 am

Spells such as "stone rain" are often called area denial spells, since they make an area very bad to stay in.
Would a character who starts outside of the spells area, pass though the area, but exit the area all within their movement and without the casting magician getting an action, suffer the damaging effects of the spell?
Stone Rain for example says " Each round, more stones rain down on the targets, who continue to take
damage as long as they remain within the area of effect.", which causes me to think that only those within the area when the magician has his action suffer the damage. I mean you are not really denying a choke-point to the enemy are you?

Comments?

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etherial
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Re: Does passing through an "area denial" spell trigger dama

Postby etherial » Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:54 am

ChrisDDickey wrote:Spells such as "stone rain" are often called area denial spells, since they make an area very bad to stay in.
Would a character who starts outside of the spells area, pass though the area, but exit the area all within their movement and without the casting magician getting an action, suffer the damaging effects of the spell?


They suffer the damaging effects of the spell when they enter the zone. If they make it out in a single round, they suffer no further ill effects.

ChrisDDickey wrote:I mean you are not really denying a choke-point to the enemy are you?


Near-automatic damage that automatically triggers a Knockdown Test and halves movement? That's pretty denying to me.

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kosmit
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Re: Does passing through an "area denial" spell trigger dama

Postby kosmit » Thu Oct 27, 2016 3:00 pm

You determine targets when the spell is cast. This is true for most AoE spells. Everybody that enters AoE and wasn't one of the initial targets remains unaffected
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The Undying
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Re: Does passing through an "area denial" spell trigger dama

Postby The Undying » Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:34 pm

kosmit wrote:You determine targets when the spell is cast. This is true for most AoE spells. Everybody that enters AoE and wasn't one of the initial targets remains unaffected


I do not believe this is true.

Uneven Ground: If successful, the ground lurches suddenly and violently, causing affected targets to become Harried and their Movement Rate is halved (round down) until they move out of the area of effect or the spell ends.


This fairly clearly states that the targets are limited to the initial creatures in the area. A bit counter-intuitive, since one would think shaking ground would be shaking for everyone, but oh well.

Blizzard Sphere: Movement is halved through the area of effect due to the conditions. Each round, the magician’s Effect test determines how much damage is inflicted on any targets within the area of effect.


The first sentence there is a complete thought in and off itself - no conditions, full stop. Whether you were there in the beginning or not, all movement through the area is halved. The second statement does NOT include "affected" qualifier for the targets. Blizzard Sphere appears to very much be a "I have made this area very cold, enter at your peril" spell. The TMD for initial casting is only to determine if the magician is able to manifest the sphere in that area. Afterwards, people are free to leave or enter it at their will. Those that remain (if there for initial casting) or enter (post-casting) BECOME targets.

Drastic Temperature: The temperature change takes thirty seconds to reach the final temperature, after which each round that a character is caught in or passes through the sphere of effect, the magician’s Effect test determines how much damage is inflicted. Once the spell has been cast, the sphere of effect cannot be moved. This spell is commonly used to create a barrier to discourage others from passing a given point.


Wording here is interesting. It's a major deviation from the others, and it's uniqueness could suggest that the others are meant to be limited to only those in the original casting area. However, this description explicitly notes that this spell is usually used to create a barrier to discourage creatures from passing through. My argument here is that the description here is merely a reflection of the fact that this spell has duration in minutes rather than rounds. In rounds, you're definitely talking about a battle, while with minutes, you're effectively talking either trap or permeable barrier. In both cases, however, you are making an area hostile for those that enter or remain in that area.

The Undying
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Re: Does passing through an "area denial" spell trigger dama

Postby The Undying » Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:18 pm

I guess the summary for I'm saying is:

Spells that affect an area affect all people that enter or remain in the area, regardless of whether they were there at initial casting, unless the spell explicitly says otherwise. The TMD for casting is just to determine if the spell can manifest in that area in the first place.

Razan_GM
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Re: Does passing through an "area denial" spell trigger dama

Postby Razan_GM » Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:55 am

I second that Undying.

Kosmit is taking his arguments from 3ed, there was much difference between "target" and "creature". Targets meant those you choose to be affected, and Creatures that you have no choice and will be affected.

But in 4ed there is no more such difference as all in AoE are affected (target or creature, wording does not matter anymore), unless you weave aditional threads to exclude some creatures/targets from spells effect.

Kosmit just to remind you :P
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1826&p=18081&hilit=fireball#p18075


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