Disbelieving Illusions

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The Undying
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Re: Disbelieving Illusions

Postby The Undying » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:49 pm

Telarus_KSC wrote:No Strain, but here are the current drawbacks: "If the spell is not an illusion, however, the target’s Mystic Defense is considered to be 2 for the purpose of determining the number of successes, as they have opened themselves up to the magic.


Owwwwwwww ... I BELIEVE EVERYTHING!!!!

Telarus_KSC
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Re: Disbelieving Illusions

Postby Telarus_KSC » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:18 pm

Mataxes wrote:
Telarus_KSC wrote:The illusionist pretending to be the old beggar launches his attack, casting "STOP RIGHT THERE" and freezing you and your companions. He then blasts the first one with Ephemeral Bolt (hoping for a good amount of damage without a Sensing Test), but it causes a Wound and the character makes the Knockdown test and that test also exceeds the Sensing difficulty. You all, frozen in place, see him scream as he is roasted in electric-green flame, then a second later the smell of buring hair disappears completely and your friend is left there unscathed. You make your Will check to break free, and the old-man is retreating down the alley, hands glowing that same electric green. You want to follow him? Tell me if you are disbelieving the next spell in advance. :evil grin:


(Emphasis mine.)

This is no longer the case in ED4. There is also no longer a strain cost associated with disbelieving. It's an all-or-nothing proposition.

Really, the division between sensing and disbelief is much more stark.

Sensing is how you detect sustained, usually environmental or appearance based illusions.

Edit: And Telarus ninja'd me.

"Short-term" (almost always damaging) illusions cannot be 'sensed'. The target must decide at the time whether they believe it or not. Believe it, and the magic affects you. Disbelieve, and it doesn't. The drawback is that if you disbelieve and it's real, you open yourself up and the effects are greater (because your MD is considered 2 for the purposes of determining successes, this means the spell will almost certainly score at least one success more than it otherwise would have).



Hm, cool. Thanks for clearing that up Mataxes. I think this does simplify things. Time to do some re-plumbing in my head around ED Illusion magic. :D

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Tattered Rags
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Re: Disbelieving Illusions

Postby Tattered Rags » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:32 pm

Mataxes wrote:"Short-term" (almost always damaging) illusions cannot be 'sensed'. The target must decide at the time whether they believe it or not. Believe it, and the magic affects you. Disbelieve, and it doesn't. The drawback is that if you disbelieve and it's real, you open yourself up and the effects are greater (because your MD is considered 2 for the purposes of determining successes, this means the spell will almost certainly score at least one success more than it otherwise would have).


The question at hand, which Undying has addressed to a large degree, is when to prompt players for the choice to disbelieve. Obviously you don't come right out and say "Illusionist!" if they don't already know. But slow players may never catch on.

A fine line, I guess, so perhaps there is no perfect solution but one tailored to a particular group.

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Tattered Rags
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Re: Disbelieving Illusions

Postby Tattered Rags » Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:20 am

Thinking through this, something akin to what The Undying has written. If the players or PC's have no reason to suspect an illusion, the GM could roll their Per (or other stat) against the Sensing Difficulty, then tell them, "Hey, that spell hurt, but something was off about it." Introduce illusions this way. Or if it does more damage than its Sensing difficulty, or the effect tests was more, or whatever. Just some trigger that indicates to the GM they should give the players a chance.

And they should definitely be allowed to disbelieve any attack spell. Well, try to, anyway.


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