Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Discussion on playing Earthdawn. Experiences, stories, and questions related to being a player.
Baravakar
Posts: 383
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:12 am
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby Baravakar » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:44 pm

I want to make sure I understand things correctly. I'm not trying to start any arguments. This is the section for FAQ.

I have a question on Thread Weaving for Magic Items and Item History:
Here are some items to consider:
    Pg. 155, Item History: If successful, each success reveals one new Key Knowledge from the item’s history. The adept can learn a maximum number of Key Knowledges from a given item equal to his Item History rank.

    Pg 222, Test Knowledge: A character using the Item History talent discovers the Test Knowledge for a particular Key Knowledge at a specific Rank.

From the blog site is:
    Conspicuous Smuggler: A set of alligator hide thread armor
    Thread Rank One- Key Knowledge: The wearer must learn the armor’s Name. Effect: The wearer gains +1 rank to Conceal Object.
    Thread Rank Two - Effect: The armor no longer has an Initiative Penalty.
    Thread Rank Three - Key Knowledge: The wearer must learn the Name of the armor’s first wearer. Effect: The wearer gains +2 ranks to Conceal Object.
    Thread Rank Four - Effect: The armor is now Mystic Armor 2.
    Thread Rank Five - Key Knowledge: The wearer must learn the details of the first wearer’s most famous smuggling adventure. Effect: For 1 Strain, the wearer may alter the appearance of the armor
    Thread Rank Six - Effect: The armor is now Physical Armor 6.

The Conspicuous Smuggler has six thread ranks and three key knowledges.
If a character has Item History Rank 3:
Can he discover all of three key knowledges?
or
Does he learn the key knowledges associated with the first three thread ranks? (Ranks 1 and 3 have key knowledge, Rank 2 does not)

User avatar
Panda
Posts: 331
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:40 am
Location: Corvallis, OR
Contact:

Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby Panda » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:47 pm

It is the second scenario, where the the rank in Item History tracks to the rank of the thread item.
Earthdawn Developer and I have a gaming blog, though, let's face it, it is really an Earthdawn blog which also happens to have some reviews.

Baravakar
Posts: 383
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:12 am
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby Baravakar » Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:50 pm

Question on Anticipate Blow:

The ED3 rules stated (pg. 63):
    After one or more successful Anticipate Blow Tests, the adept may announce a Reserved Action for later that round to interrupt the attack of an opponent Anticipate Blow was successfully used against with a counter-attack.
This rule was removed entirely from the ED4, it now says (pg 128):
    After a successful Anticipate Blow test, the adept also adds +2 per success as a bonus to the first Attack test they make against that target. Anticipate Blow does not convey any additional attacks—the adept must use other talents or skills to attack as normal.
Does a character have to be targeted by an opponent use this talent in the new edition?

The talent begins with:
    The adept anticipates attacks made against him, making him harder to hit.
No where in the new rule does it state that the target has to be attacking the talent user.
Also, under the new Combat Rules (starting on pg 371) characters declare their intentions before initiative and the specifics when the actions are being resolved.

Example:
    The party of five is being attacked by 3 cadavarmen.
    The human wizard declares he will use a spell, the archer to fire his bow, the two warriors and the sky raider declare they will melee attack.
    The cadavarmen declare to attack also.
    Initiative is rolled and the all of the heroes beat the cadavarmen's rolls.
    On their turns, the versatile wizard and archer both declare to use Anticipate Blow and score successes.
    When the wizard and archer make their attack tests, they receive the bonus to hit.
    (Before you even go there, pg 377, defines the phrase "Attack Test" and it includes spell casting and missile weapons specifically)
    The other heroes attack and then the cadavarmen go last.
    At no point were the wizard and archer being targeted by the cadavarmen's attacks.
Is this the intention of the rule changes?

User avatar
Mataxes
Site Admin
Posts: 907
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:51 pm

Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby Mataxes » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:20 pm

Anticipate Blow does require a specific target; the phrasing of the talent rules indicate a specific target (must have a higher Initiative than his target, test is against target's MD). If it were a generic ability, it would have been phrased the same way as Acrobatic Defense (which specifies 'any opponents').

As far as the bonus goes, the bonus certainly applies to melee and ranged attacks, as the intention of the talent is to anticipate the target's attack/movement and the bonus results from knowing where they are going to be. Prior editions have never been clear on whether the bonus from Anticipate Blow applies to spells; the rules have always said the bonus applies to the "Attack test".

I don't think it has ever actually been addressed before. Prior to ED4, none of the core spellcasting Disciplines had access to Anticipate Blow (outside of Versatility), so whether "Attack test" in that context applies to spellcasting... my gut says it should, only so that the utility of the talent applies equally across the board.

But I could see the argument that in the context of this ability it should only apply to Attack tests against Physical Defense (because spell targeting works differently than targeting an attack with a sword or arrow).

As a side note, the reason we dropped the whole thing with only giving the bonus on delayed actions is because, quite frankly, the convolutions that can result when you're dealing with delayed actions and Initiative results, and different talent interactions... it was frequently a headache, and doesn't really add enough value to play. (That and the ED1 version of the talent didn't have the need for delayed actions to give the attack bonus -- this was one of those things added in ED3 that added complexity without really adding value, IMO.)

Edit to add: Reading that through, I realized that I may have misunderstood your question, and didn't really answer what you were asking? That is, if a character can use Anticipate Blow against a target that is not actually coming after him. I would say you can, though obviously if the target of Anticipate Blow isn't actually attacking you, the Defense Bonus doesn't really do anything for you. You could still get the secondary benefit of the Attack test bonus, though.
Josh Harrison -- The Lore Merchant
Troubadour and Magic Theorist
Line Developer: Earthdawn

Baravakar
Posts: 383
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:12 am
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby Baravakar » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:30 pm

I appreciate the completeness of your response. I choose to target the question to one aspect of the talent description but I wanted an explanation for the change. Hence asking for the intention of the change and not just soliciting a yes or no response.

Baravakar
Posts: 383
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:12 am
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby Baravakar » Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:09 am

FYI:
There is very little difference between Anticipate Blow and Maneuver.
Anticipate Blow is PER based and tested against Mystic Defense. Maneuver is DEX based and tested against Physical Defense.
Anticipate Blow has a specific the initiative limitation and Maneuver does not.
In order to use take advantage of the defensive bonus for each you will have to beat the initiative of your target anyway.
The attack bonuses are the same. But Maneuver is limited to close combat only.
There is an advantage to Maneuver's bonus because you don't have to exceed the opponent's initiative.

It's probably to late but because of the changes discussed previously, Anticipate Blow could benefit from a name change. It has nothing to due with "blows" from the target anymore. Anticipate Enemy or something similar. The text could be more divination based. The adept is able to foresee briefly into the future and can predict what the opponent will do.

Also in thinking about it, if you can Anticipate your opponent's attack and attacks include spells, why can't Anticipate Blow increase both Physical and Mystic defenses?

User avatar
Mataxes
Site Admin
Posts: 907
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:51 pm

Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby Mataxes » Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:34 am

With regard to the last item, the reason is twofold. The first is that many spells do not really have a physical component that can be predicted, and allowing it only to work against 'physical' spells hampers certain magician Disciplines over others. The other component is the nature of how spell targeting works -- even for spells with a physical component (like Earth Darts), the caster is still creating a connection to the target's pattern through astral space, and 'anticipating' what the caster might do doesn't really affect that.

(Not to mention from a game-balance standpoint, a Novice-tier talent that increases Physical and Mystic Defense is overpowered.)

While Maneuver and Anticipate Blow have similar overall effects (PD increase, attack bonus), the mechanisms they use (Dex-based vs PD and Per-based vs MD) are different enough that they are beneficial to different types of characters.
Josh Harrison -- The Lore Merchant
Troubadour and Magic Theorist
Line Developer: Earthdawn

N-Pendzialek
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:42 pm

Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby N-Pendzialek » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:13 pm

If i am right, Maneuver is also compatible with Acrobatic Defense, while Anticipate Blow is not. Which makes it a nice combination. I am playing 2 gaming rounds atm playing a weaponsmith with high perception using Anticipate Blow and one playing a warrior using the dexterity combination in combat.

User avatar
etherial
Posts: 601
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:29 am

Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby etherial » Sun May 10, 2015 10:54 pm

Looks like at least a couple errors made it to the print edition. There's a layout glitch on p. 310. Fortunately, it's just cutting the descenders off a couple of characters. Also, on p. 317, Stench is missing a close parenthesis on "Increase Area (+2 Yards"

Jaracove
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:20 am

Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby Jaracove » Sat May 16, 2015 9:55 am

Has the pdf been updated to reflect the errata found in this thread?


Return to “For Players”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest