Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

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Razan_GM
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Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby Razan_GM » Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:35 am

Can Tail Combat be used without the Tail Attack combat option?

Yes it can, these are two different thing. Tail Combat lets you use tail to fight (if your legs/arms are bonded for example), it's just there so players know they can use tail to attack.

Tail Attack Combat Option gives you another attack (with use of Unarmed skill or talent, that means you can use 2 times skill/talent that has Standard action - first for first attack and second time for second attack - thanks to Tail Attack combat option, but you suffer -2 penalty to all test that round).

If the player attacks with his tail using Tail Combat,
1 Does that take his standard action?
2 Does he suffer the penalties associated with Tail Attack?
3 Can two separate attacks be made with the same tail in the same round? One for Tail Combat and an additional one for using the Tail Attack Option?
4 The penalty says it applies to all tests that round.
Does this apply to the Unarmed Combat test itself?
5 Does the penalty apply to the damage test for the Tail Combat / Attack?


1 Yes, you must use Unarmed skill/talent (standard action).
2 If you use Tail Attack Combat Option (it applies to all tests that round).
3 Yes. Just like using same arm to attack twice.
4 & 5 It applies to all tests that round. All means all.

Baravakar
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Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby Baravakar » Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:00 am

Razan,
Thank for taking the time to respond to my post on T’skrang tails. I fully understood the basics of the rules, but I asked the question to address the contradictions.

This fist set of questions was to make sure there we two separate ways the character can use his tail for attacks. Pretty straight forward, to create a base line for the follow-up questions.

There is a contradiction in this sentence:
    Pg 386, Tail Attack: The character makes an Unarmed Combat test, and suffers a –2 penalty to all tests that round.
He makes a test and suffers penalty to all tests. This can be taken that the penalty only applies to tests after the Unarmed Combat roll is made, but not to the test itself.

Also, there is a contradiction between the rules for damage.
    Pg. 53, Tail Combat: The Damage Step is the Strength Step, unless modified by abilities that enhance unarmed combat Damage.

    Pg 386, Tail Attack: The character suffers a –2 penalty to all tests that round. The character makes a Damage test using his Strength Step.
For Tail Combat, the damage can only be enhanced not penalized.

For Tail Attack, it specifically reiterates the damage is the STR step after the penalty is mentioned, this indicates the penalty does not apply to the damage test itself.

Telarus_KSC
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Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby Telarus_KSC » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:13 pm

(Tail Combat) A T'skrang may, at any time, use his Standard Action in a round to attack with his Tail by rolling Unarmed Combat to attack, Strength for damage. The phrase, "unless modified by abilities that enhance unarmed combat Damage" means that one can use damage bonuses that apply to a) any test, b) unarmed combat damage tests (as opposed to melee tests, which is important because some t'skrang use "attached weapons" on their tails, and these are considered "unarmed combat equipment" ;) ). This simply opens up the rules space that tails are just like any other Limb for a t'skrang (so don't think tying their hands removes their threat).

(Tail Attack Combat Option) A T'skrang may declare an additional Tail Attack in combat by using the Tail Attack Combat Option. This declaration happens when you roll Initiative, like all Combat Option declarations. So the -2 Penalty lasts the whole round, start to finish on all Tests made (even Avoid Blow tests made before performing the Tail Attack, and yes, including the damage test). [Player's Guide p. 372: "Combat options need to be chosen before Initiative is rolled because many combat options have effects that last the entire round, ..."]

Also, keep in mind that Penalties always apply unless something specifically states they do not. Got Taunted/Battle-Shouted/have 4 Wounds this round? Probably not a good time to stack the -2 Tail Attack penalty on top of that. :)

Baravakar
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Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby Baravakar » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:35 am

Thank for the feedback.
I think the wording should be changed.
    Pg. 53, Tail Combat: The Damage Step is the Strength Step, unless modified by abilities that enhance unarmed combat Damage.

    Pg. 53, Tail Combat: The base Damage Step is the Strength Step and can be modified as normal.

    Pg 386, Tail Attack: When using the tail attack option, the character suffers a -2 penalty on all tests that round. The character gains an additional attack with tail. The normal rules for Tail Combat apply along with the penalty.
This would remove any ambiguity from the rule.

Telarus:
Taunted/Battle-Shouted/have 4 Wounds this round?

Probably can't use it at all because:
    A character’s Initiative Step cannot voluntarily be lowered below Step 1.

Razan_GM
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Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby Razan_GM » Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:16 am

Telarus explained it better than I did, but that was what I mean.

Baravakar
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Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby Baravakar » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:24 pm

Question on Archer Karma:
    Pg 91: Archer - The adept may spend a Karma Point on Perception tests that rely on sight. Talent: Thread Weaving (Arrow Weaving)

    Pg 174: Thread Weaving - Step: Rank + PER

    Pg 212: Thread Sight - Adepts receive Thread Sight along with the Thread Weaving talent.
    Characters use Thread Sight to see the pattern of an item in order to weave threads to it.
    Thread Sight does not allow an adept to see detail or glean information from a pattern. It simply allows an adept to sense enough of the pattern to weave threads to it.
    Using Thread Sight in this manner does not require a separate test—it takes place as part of the adept’s Thread Weaving test.

Does the Archer Karma ability apply to Thread Weaving tests because of Thread Sight?
Can they spend two karma on thread weaving tests at first circle?
Last edited by Baravakar on Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Panda
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Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby Panda » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:26 pm

No; Thread Sight allows them to see the pattern, but is not actually used to weave the thread.
Earthdawn Developer and I have a gaming blog, though, let's face it, it is really an Earthdawn blog which also happens to have some reviews.

Baravakar
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Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby Baravakar » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:28 pm

Yes it does, thread sight automatically occurs when thread weaving is used.

    Pg 212: Using Thread Sight in this manner does not require a separate test—it takes place as part of the adept’s Thread Weaving test.

When the adept uses thread weaving he is also using thread sight. Therefore, thread weaving is a sight based PER test.
Last edited by Baravakar on Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Panda
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Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby Panda » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:31 pm

Based on this interpretation, every action which uses vision and Perception should be applicable. Clearly this is not the case. I'm not certain if you are looking for clarification or trying to pick a fight.
Earthdawn Developer and I have a gaming blog, though, let's face it, it is really an Earthdawn blog which also happens to have some reviews.

Baravakar
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Re: Fourth Edition Player's Guide Errata and FAQ

Postby Baravakar » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:41 pm

I'm not trying to pick a fight but you seem to be ignoring the under lining information.

And yes every action test an Archer makes using PER and sight is available for Karma. That clearly is the ability at first circle.
From an earlier post it was already established that a Windling Archer can use Karma on the racial ability of Astral Sight because of the first circle karma ability.

From reading the rules for thread weaving is it sight based? There is ambiguity in the language.
    Thread Sight takes place as part of the adept’s Thread Weaving test.

    Characters use Thread Sight to see the pattern of an item in order to weave threads to it.

    Thread Sight does not allow an adept to see detail or glean information from a pattern.
    It simply allows an adept to sense enough of the pattern to weave threads to it.

    An Archer may spend a Karma Point on Perception tests that rely on sight.
The language used says that when thread weaving is used the adepts sees the pattern in order to attach the thread.
But it also states the adept can not see details, he only senses the pattern.

So is thread sight, sight based?
Last edited by Baravakar on Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:55 pm, edited 7 times in total.


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