3rd edition DW, which modifications would you like to see?

Discussion on the Demonworld game line, errata, and feedback not related to playing or miniatures.
User avatar
Arhnayel
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:11 am
Location: In the heart of Snow...
Contact:

Re: 3rd edition DW, which modifications would you like to se

Postby Arhnayel » Mon May 27, 2013 12:02 pm

* Thain really have big problems against shootings army, especially against big artillery. Even with eagle clan, because you are not a match against the other shooters. I dont want a shooting Thain army anyway, but its really hard to fight against them.


I had the same problem in my first games versus Elves. Just get two Gar'worgar against shooters armies, and move your units behind them. Once the Gar'worgar engages the shooters, the job's done ! Versus artillery... move quick, in line formation, try to get out of range / angle of shoot, hide in forest... and summon a Totem and / or Wild Spirits.

* The 1 dealing damage spells is a horror for me, it easyle kills your stongest heroes, even with the best armour, kills your giant or weaken your strongest units.... and if you try to avoid it with the blue amulet you have max 1 for to many points and even cant spell your own unit...


Totally agree with you on that spell. The good thing is it has only a range of 5 hexes and if the wizard casts it, he doesn't do anything else. Try to get many weak heroes (like Magor'dak) instead of only one strong. The Balista can be of help (aim the wizard, pray for no deflects).

* to bann magic is also a sad think to me, because of the aspects you have to chose the cheap one, becasue the expensive one easyle can be dispelled for 2 mana!?! why not at least for the same mana?
or give Thain a spell that protect your units from enemys spells (would also solve the 1 damage dealing problem)


Good idea for the bannish magic spell. To protect one of your own unit, you have the magical standard that increases the diffculty of spells by 5. Quite usefull but risky. Another idea is to get a Gar'morrigu which will run accross the enemy lines to kill the wizard in a one-hit (with the 1D3 Hit Points damage). Quite risky, but very efficient.

to make throwing weapons nearly useless for the lion clan


I hope that change will never become official in 3rd edition. The Silver Lions are my favourite Thaïn unit and they will be useless without their good mid-ranged-shoots.
The Blessing of Stars' eternal
Although the Knight remains mortal.

DerGevater
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:54 am

Re: 3rd edition DW, which modifications would you like to se

Postby DerGevater » Mon May 27, 2013 4:35 pm

Arhnayel wrote:... and summon a Totem and / or Wild Spirits.

Yeah thats is the only thing thats always works, but i dont think its funny to play always with Totems and so, just because there is no other way.....
Also really great works the summon ghost of Dorga (i love them).

Arhnayel wrote:Totally agree with you on that spell. The good thing is it has only a range of 5 hexes and if the wizard casts it, he doesn't do anything else. Try to get many weak heroes (like Magor'dak) instead of only one strong. The Balista can be of help (aim the wizard, pray for no deflects).


But then you will never have them with you, a waste of the really nice heroes.... (lucky the range is really short and you can stand out of it)
An idea i had today is, to make it to an magic attack, with an attack value of (for example) 15, ignoring amour, but not size or magic armour.

Arhnayel wrote:To protect one of your own unit, you have the magical standard that increases the diffculty of spells by 5


Yeah and cost many points, if the standard weare dies its gone and own spells also cost more.....

Arhnayel wrote: Another idea is to get a Gar'morrigu which will run accross the enemy lines to kill the wizard in a one-hit (with the 1D3 Hit Points damage)


Never workt for me, i already tryed it sometimes, but i often really have bad timming (my biggest personal problem :D )

User avatar
Arhnayel
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:11 am
Location: In the heart of Snow...
Contact:

Re: 3rd edition DW, which modifications would you like to se

Postby Arhnayel » Tue May 28, 2013 1:48 pm

@DerGevater :
I think we should continue the strategy chat in another topic (after all, this is the topic for 3rd edition changes). I created a Thaïn strategy topic here. I answered to you there.
The Blessing of Stars' eternal
Although the Knight remains mortal.

User avatar
Arhnayel
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:11 am
Location: In the heart of Snow...
Contact:

Re: 3rd edition DW, which modifications would you like to se

Postby Arhnayel » Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:02 am

Back to the main subject...

Here are some changes I would like to see fo the 3rd edition concerning rules, units and recruitment.

General rules

- clarify somewhere (in bold) that unit cannot split them when moving (save when engaging an ennemy or during a fight because of casualties...) ;
- Leaders and Standard-bearers should have no longer their +1 in battlepower ;
- Impetuous units should have more disadvantages (maybe only one manoeuver allowed) ;
- Heroes and Commanders with high armour values should have fewer Hit Points : by example, characters like Norfred (Isthak) and Jorghan (Empire) have 4 HP with a heavy cavalry armour... it's too much ! They could have only 3 HP.

Isthak

Beastmen

- split the Beastmen category in two : "basic beastmen : min 15 max 50 % (recruit only Beastmen with handweapons, Beastmen with spears, Beastmen in armour and Polar Bears" and "elite beastmen : min 0 max 30%" (recruit Snow Trolls, Beastmen Berserkers, Brothers of the Icelord and the 3 heroes) ;
- OR put a restriction to Snow Trolls, Berserkers and Brothers recruitment (one of these can be recruited only if one "standard" unit has already been...) ;
- give the Polar Bears the "no limit in snow field" ;
- decrease the power of the Polar Bears to 12 AND/OR increase their cost to 160 or 170 ;
- clarify the moment when the attacks of the Polard Bears and their riders mus be announced. I mean : the riders have a spear and fight with a +1 initiative bonus so they attack before the Polar Bears... do we announce the attacks of the riders, roll the dices and then announce the attacks of the bears, roll the dices (it's what I've always done) ? Do we announce all the attacks of riders and bears and then roll all the dices ? Do the bears receive the +1 initiative bonus as well (this would really need a higher cost) ?

Ice Witches

- same "initiative question" for the Gargoyles Riders as for the Polar Bears ;
- remove the Skirmish formation of the Furies and decrease their cost to 210 ;
- decrease the cost of the Snow Canon to 320.

Humans

- category : min 0 max 40 or 50%.

Undead

- give a restriction to the recruitement of Death Knights : one of these can be recruited only if a "standard" undead unit has already been.

Thaïn

Warriors of the Hordes

- these units' costs are a little too expensive... decrease them by 10 points ;
- increase the Second Morale value of the Skirmishers to 14 (this will make them more usefull).

Elves

Thanaril Alliances

- decrease the Fear Factor of Badger People to 2 (and 3 vs Thaïn) OR increase the Fear Factor of the Sword Masters to 2 OR decrease the cost of the Sword Masters to 220 points.

Ilah Ris

- decrease the Movement Points of the Bel Ludains to 24 in M-order (and then : 18 / 12) ;
- decrease the Movement Points of Athulain Bel Gilfar to 24 ;
- increase the cost of the Lutharis to 200 ;
- give the Cailanirs the Square Formation.

Dyrea

- change the spell "Superior Magic" to make it easier to use by either removing the "defense" of the target or decreasing its efficiency (2 Spell Points for 1 malus) or making the spell cannot going wrong when substracting the "Spell Points used for defense" to the socre of the D20 save if the score of the D20 was already 1 or 2.

Goblins

Infantry

- split category in two : "basic Intantry : min 15 max 50%" (recruiting Warriors, Archers, Running Spears, Desert Stalkers, War Turtles, Spider Hunters) and "elite Infantry : min 0 max 30%" (recruiting Trollbins, Mutants, Cave Fighters, Young Brothers) ;
- OR put a restriction to Trollbins, Mutants, Young Brothers and Cave Fighters recruitment (one of these can be recruited only if one "standard" unit has already been...).

Giant Insects

- either decrease the number of Hit Points by 1 for Trogulidus, Horridus, Macrothele, Grancroid, Uncroid (and Shaman Gadral), Monocloid and Stomaid or decrease their amour values (specially in melee).

Empire

Heroes

- give Gordan the Orc-slayer a better Fear Factor vs Orcs and Goblins or decrease its cost to 60 points ;
- add another ** commander, mounted, with 32 Movement Points with 3 Hit Points, a cavalry spear, a handweapon, a melee-skill of 2 and amour values of 3/6 (like the Noble Lancers) and costing 110-120 points, just to have a basic commander for "little" cavalries.

Noble army

- decrease the cost of the Noble Crossbowmen to 200 ot 190 points ;
- give the Noble Footsoldiers something to make them a little better (a longsword ? a melee skill of 1 ?).

Dark Elves

General

- decrease the power of all the Crossbows by 1 (because they already can shoot in the first Shooting phase... or within the both phases !) or increase the cost of the units using them.

Warriors

- split the category in two : "basic Warriors : min 15 - max 50%" (recruiting everything save Dar Kalons, Mounted Scouts, Ballista) and "elite Warriors : min 0 - max 30%" (recruiting only the Dar Kalons, Mounted Scouts and Ballista) ;
- OR put a restriction to Mounted Scouts, Dar Kalons and Ballista recruitment (one of these can be recruited only if one "standard" unit has already been...) ;
- OR put the Dar Kalons and Mounted Scouts in the "Noble army" category and decrease a little the power of the Ballista ;
- OR increase the cost of the Scouts or make them unable to modify the battlefield and change category of Dar Kalons and decrease the Ballista's power ;
- in any case, decrease the Movement Points of the Dar Kalons to 24 in M-order (and then : 18 / 12) ;
- increase the cost of the War Waggon to 170 (160 min but with a decrease of its sickle attack).

Heroes

- decrease the Movement Points of Prince Taloris to 32.

Orcs

Magic

- decrease the cost of the Shaman lvl 3 to 330 points and give him a third Hit Points ;
- decrease the range of the spell "Magical Voice" to 20 hexes ;
- decrease the boost to armour values given by the spell "Stoneflesh" so the targets only receive a +1 to both values.

Clanngett

- Clanngett's brothers should be recruited in the "Clanngett" category AND in the "Heroes and Commanders" one because they lead the army.

Dwarves

General
- increase all the Movement Points of all infantry units and characters (save Hill Giants) by 2 ;
- mark Dungal, Furgrimm and Quorn's battle powers by increasing them by 1.

Basic Units

- change the category of the Guards so they are now considered as "Special unit of the Kingdoms" for both Kingdoms ;
- OR put a restriction to the Guards recruitment (can be recruited only if another unit has already been...).

Special Units of the Kingdoms

- decrease the cost of the Dragon's Thunder to 400 ;
- decrease the power of the Blunderers by either decreasing their shooting skill by 1 or decreasing their ranges and powers ;
- increase the cost of the Blunderers to 160 ;
- remove the shooting skill of the Bat with Blunderbuss.

Edit :

[b]Elves[b]

- decrease the Fear Factor of Treemen to 3 (unit) and 4 (giant).

[b]Dark Elves[b]

- decrease the boost of the spell "Darkness Mantel" to +1 to both armour values (instead of +2) ;
- increase the cost of the Golems or made the control more expensive in Spell Points ;
- decrease the Fear Factor of the Gor'Daris Dragon (the two-headed one) to 4 or 5 ;
- don't forget to decrease the power and/or range of the "little crossbow" (as it can already fires twice per turn...).
Last edited by Arhnayel on Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
The Blessing of Stars' eternal
Although the Knight remains mortal.

Llwellyn
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:03 pm

Please NOT a new Warhammer

Postby Llwellyn » Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:23 pm

Hi There,

First of all thumbs up to Arhnayel for carrying the Demonworld community for so long.
I remember when we bought Demonworld many years ago with a good friend of mine, we were happily surprised to discover that a single hero could NOT take on a full regiment all by himself.
The second version brought more power to the single hero, with some great balance from the "german version erratas".

I like the strong restrictions when creating amies, it forces you to put some elite unit along some low-cost canon fodder. However, these rectrictions are somehow forbidding some units from even being considered being part of an army. In my opinion, the restrictions should be kept as they are but each army should have a broader range of unit to choose from.

As an example (I play Ishtak), there is not much to choose from the Sorceress. I don't think there should be more artillery or cavalry (there are other armies for that), just a broader range of unit.
And yes more armies.

I hope the 3rd edition will keep the D20, please.
Yes it brings an element of luck but remember you throw an average of 8 to 10 dices per regiment. This averages out a lot of the luck effect and forces you to do your best for this extra +2/+4 that makes a difference.

And yes DW 3rd is a great idea !?!

popidus
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 7:36 am

Re: 3rd edition DW, which modifications would you like to se

Postby popidus » Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:19 pm

I think that they is too many suggestions (31 pages of text !) and as I said before I think that we need to organize them.

So, I tried to take all suggestions, organizing them with Numbers and put them in specific topics for easier reference.

I hope that this will give you some ideas.
I will stress the fact that some ideas can be put in a box as “An option: …” or simply used as home rules.

Enjoy! :wtf:
PS : I’m French so sorry for my English or to incorrectly put your ideas.


So, the topics:

"Demonworld version 3 – Rules Propositions (main books review)"
Purpose: to put all suggestions on the main books in the same order than them (cf. Arhanyel suggestions).
Some topics can be so important that you can add a new topic.

“Demonworld version 3 – Rules propositions – Summoning”
Summoning in Demonworld is very important and I have a lot of discussion with Arhanyel on that.
So, I create a specific topic on those suggestions.

“Demonworld version 3 – Armies – Rules”
I put here all the propositions to modify existing rules (cf. Arhanyel suggestions).

“Demonworld version 3 – Armies – Categories: new or modified”
I put here all the propositions to modify categories with the suggestion to split some categories in Basic/Elite troops (cf. Arhanyel suggestions) or even Basic/Elite Heroes or regroup troops and Units in other categories.
As these suggestions can change many things and the discussion can be lengthy, I made a specific topic.

“Plan for new armies”
I put here all my propositions: South Kingdom, North Duchy, Beastmen army, Ice Witch army and Undead army.
You can add yours.
Principle for me:
- just a reorganization of armies using only existing unit.
- possibility to use them now in Demonworld version 2 as an house’ rule.

“New units planned ?”
Principles for me:
- use an existing miniature, unit or Hero, change only the Name, eventually the painting.
- possibility to use them now in Demonworld version 2 as a house’ rule.
- give the possibility to use miniatures.
It’s possible to use them now in Demonworld version 2 as an option.

popidus
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 7:36 am

Re: 3rd edition DW, which modifications would you like to se

Postby popidus » Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:20 pm

...


I didn’t create these topics :

I had no time to review them...

"Demonworld version 3 – New/added background – New/Added illustrations"
Purpose: to treat all suggestions on this domain...
In my opinion, the 2nd edition Background is enough to play.
Perhaps, it will be good to have :
-a new map with all Demonworld’World
-New illustrations.
-a chronology…

"Demonworld version 3 – New way to play – No hexes"
Purpose: to treat all suggestions on this domain...
I didn’t treat them except here:
3- Terrains - Maps : hexes are not hexes ? Materials ?
- Hexes are OK, to have more beautiful map : put marks like a X for the intersections not a complete hex.
- I like the principle of maps without anything and modulars Forests/Mountains etc to put on.
- Rigid map board : ok especially with maps with nothing on it but beware of the cost...

"Demonworld version 3 – New way to play – D20 or else ?"
Purpose: to treat all suggestions on this domain...
I didn’t treat them...


Return to “Product Discussion”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest