Thaïn - Strategies, tips, FAQ

Discussion on the Demonworld rules. Tips and tactics are welcome!
User avatar
Arhnayel
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:11 am
Location: In the heart of Snow...
Contact:

Thaïn - Strategies, tips, FAQ

Postby Arhnayel » Mon May 27, 2013 1:53 pm

This topic is meant to help Thaïn players to handle this army and to help other players to fight Thaïn. If you have some comments, tips, advices or questions, feel free to post them ! I sincerely hope this topic will help beginners (and perhaps even veterans !) playing this difficult army.

Warning ! Huge text ! If you don't want to read everything, you can skip and go the section XI - Some armies (end of post) to have some armylists. The last section, XII - Fighting Thaïn is for players who want some tips to fight Thaïn armies.

I - Generalities

Please note that the gameplay of Thaïn is tied to the Horde you play with. The Hordes of the Wolf, the Bear and the Boar are striclty melee-oriented while the Horde of the Eagle is a shooter army and the Horde of the Moutain Lion is based upon skirmisher units. What I am giving here are general weakness, strengthes and so on.

Thaïn is a good army when it comes to the melee : units are easily impetuous (+2 Initiative, +1 Morale and +1 melee power), with a good morale a quite good battle power. They also have - in most case - 2 maneuvers which allow you to be more flexible than an Isthak army. The Shamans of Thaïn have some very good spells (the Aspects, the summonings...) improving greatly your troops' versatility and your gameplay.

In addition, you can easilty recruit the powefull Gar'ydwens : those behemoths are a central and a master piece of Thaïn army, giving you "tanks" or "destroyers". Learn how to play them !

On the other hand, Thaïn main weaknesses are :
- low missile protection ;
- low Initiative (only two units with spears and only one with Initiative 3) ;
- units are expensive ;
- no cavaleries (except the Gar'arryds) ;
- elite units are very limited by the quotas / recruiting rules.

Those weaknesses make Thaïn a very difficult army to play. You need to play smart, to plan you moves and charge only when it's the right time (try to be impetuous but you must avoid shoots...), use you Gar'ydwen right (one can "tank", one is a wizards-and-behemoths-killer, one is a units-destroyer...) and don't forget your spells (Aspects !).

Think your recruiting twice with Thaïn. Everything is usefull, but not against anyone... Don't rush blindy, use your maneuvers to avoid disavantadging situations, try to be impetuous... and use the Gar'ydwens !

In game, move your troops close to each other to avoid letting a place where a quick Hero could sneak in. Just keep a good distance to avoid the enemy stuck 2 units with 1, and remember : Thaïn may look like stupid barbarians (who said "Vikings" ?), they still have 2 maneuvers.

II - Shoots

One of the main weakness of Thaïn is the low missile protection. The best ways to protect your troops are :
- recruit 2 Gar'worgars and use them as "tank" in the frontline, charging the archers units first (Gar'worgars are hard to use ! Learn how to play them !) ;
- play archers and ballistas (Horde of the Eagle) ;
- use spells to increase your armour (Church of Dorga, some Aspects depending of the Horde).

Anyway, you will suffer casualties from ranged-attacks, but your units will stand because of their good Morale. The idea is to avoid the most casualties possible by playing smart and recruiting the right units and Gar'ydwen.

III - Magic and Aspects

The main advantage of Thaïn magic is the ability to reinforce your troops before the game begins, with the well-known Aspects. As you cast them just before the game, you know what you will fight. So, cast only the Aspects usefull for this game. Avoid the most expensive, save if you have a lvl 2 or lvl 3 Shaman.

Reinforce your basic Warriors units first, as you will have 2 of them and need to use them corectly. The Warriors units will benefit the most from Aspects. Once it's done, reinforce your Veterans and Characters.

In game, some spells are really usefull : Iron Hand (take control of a natural cavalery to destroy it easily or make it go far away of the battle), Totem Summoning (to have one more Hero on the field), Wild Spirits Summoning (a unit of 3 elements... always good to have !). So, your Shamans will be near the heart of the battle and need to be protected. Play them carefully : they will need to rest the 2 first turns, the summonings are expensive, and - again - beware of shooters units and quick Heroes who could try to sneak in.

The Church of Dorga is quite different : the Priests cannot cast any Aspects and can only reinforce your troops during the game. Their magic is quite good, but less interesting than the Shamans' one.

IV - Gar'ydwens

One of the main strength of Thaïn, the Gar'ydwens give you a real elite, but they are hard to play. Take your time to learn how to play them and do not hesitate to recruit 2 of them (40% max allowed). You will only have 3 "standard" units, but a Gar'ydwen will do the job of a unit, and can do even more.

The Gar'worgar is the best "tank" and the best behemoth to recruit to fight shooters armies like the Elves (recruit 2 of them in that case). Use it in the frontline, charge the archers (or anything with a good Initiative and/or battlepower like pikemen / heavy cavaleries) and move your others units behind to engage in a second wave. Its overrun attack is quite good, but not as effective as the Gar'morrigu or Gar'nar'og ones. To avoid beeing stuck by a Hero - it would be a waste - keep a Hero (or quick unit... or a summoning) nearby.

The Gar'morrigu is a very quick behemoth, able to hunt and kill wizards and other behemoths. Be careful : it is easily blocked by a Hero or a unit. Always useful for the overrun attacks because of its speed and Initiative.

The Gar'nar'og is a devastating beast against units, but weak against Heroes and very weak against shooters. Use it to destroy units (overrun and melee), avoid letting it be shot or stuck by a Hero - it would be a waste. Beware : it costs 220 points !

The Gar'arryds unit is Thaïn only cavalery : quick, resistant, powerful... but no Initiative boost and only 3 elements. It is a good recruiting idea to block / destroy some units, but beware of archers - once again.

The Gar'ydwedds (with archers or ballista) are to be played only if your opponent does not have longbows. Play the overrun mainly as the melee attack is only to disengage if it's stuck in melee - or to finish a unit. Don't forget the shoots - your own !

V - Horde of the Eagle

The Horde of the Eagle uses very good archers and ballistas. So, you need to recruit melee units in the Warriors category to have a balanced army. You can go full archery. The strategy ? Shoot first, forget the questions then.

VI - Horde of the Mountain Lion

The Horde of the Mountain Lion is based upon skirmishers. The Hunters and Silvers Lions are the best skirmishers units in the game. Here is the basic way to play them :
- move with a Hold order at turn n, letting the enemy come at range, shoot in second Phase ;
- give a Skirmish order if your enemy cannot charge you at turn n+1, shoot in first Phase, move back before the enemy comes to you ;
- give a Hold order at turn n+2, let the enemy charges, shoot in second Phase, fight with your increased Initiative.

You can also have a Hero / Gar'ydwen charging and blocking the enmy while your units shoot. Charge the enemy only when it has been weakened enough as your units don't have much armour.

VII - Horde of the Wolf

The Horde of the Wolf plays on Morale. The fights will be brief as the high Fear Factor of your units will make the enemies flee easily just after the first melee. Having an archers unit nearby can help dealing easy damages on routing elements... or weakening the strongest units. For the rest, Werewolves are strong but move straight forward, so use a Gar'worgar to deal with the enemy's archers.

VIII - Horde of the Boar

The Horde of the Boar benefits from a good charge ability. Recruit Spearmen to maximize the charge bonus. Use your Spearmen / Gar'ydwens / Heroes / summonings to engage first, then charge with your Veterans. Success guaranteed.

IX - Horde of the Bear

The Horde of the Bear's gameplay is a heavy infantry one : move slowly but surely, with a good armour, and destroy anything in melee. Time your units well - use Gar'ydwens / Heroes / summonings to block archers and threats like cavaleries - and charge as soon as you can.

X - Church of Dorga

The Church of Dorga has a very cheap unit with a very good Morale to be used as cannon-fodder (reinforce it with the Ancestors Protection spell). The other one is a "heavy infantry"-like, with less arour (reinforce it with the Ancestors Protection spell). The strategy is simple : reinforce your weakest units first, keep some Spell Points to cast some control and fear spells and/or try to banish undead / demons. If you have the points for, recruit a lvl 2 Priest for the summoning spell.

Don't forget you can have a Gar'ydwen, some Veterans from a Horde... and even a Shaman.

XI - Some armies in 1200 pts

* A classical Thaïn army with 2 Gar'ydwens : Archers, Warriors, Gar'worgar, Gar'morrigu, Barran'yar, Magor'dak, Sagar'yanordas, + 1 Veterans unit (230 pts max).

This is just to give you an idea of what you can play with Thaïn. If you want the Gar'nar'og, just replace the Gar'morrigu and Magor'dak by the Gar'nar'og, or take a low cost Veterans unit and use the spared points. Many changes are possible. Just recruit what you want and adjust the points. You can, of course, recruit only 1 Gar'ydwen (or 0) and recruit 2 Veterans units or the lvl 2 Shaman etc.

The 5 following armies use the Great Champions, the Shaman lvl 1 and a Gar'ydwen :

* An army of the Horde of the Eagle : Spearmen x2, Gar'morrigu, Barran'yar, Eagle Archers x2, Har'anyrrd.

Shoot, intercept the enemy with the Spearmen, shoot in melee (use the Marksmanship Aspect on the Archers and the Dodge one on the Spearmen). The Gar'morrigu ovverruns and hunts down behemoths / characters. Har'anyrrd is a sniper, so keep him independant. Summon as soon as possible a Totem to have another independant hero.

* An army of the Horde of the Lion : Warriors x2, Gar'worgar, Barran'yar, Hunters, Silver Lions, Shariga'kyan.

The Gar'worgar will block and engage while the Warriors charge in a second wave. The Hunters and Silvers Lions must use their javelins / daggers as most as possible then engage a weakened unit. Shariga'kyan should be near the Gar'worgar to support it and intercept any hero who could block the behemoth.

* An army of the Horde of the Wolf : Archers, Spearmen, Gar'worgar, Werewolves, Dagorkon’yaghar, the White Wolves.

The Gar'worgar leads the way, followed by the Werewolves. Use Archers to weaken strong units (and try to shoot routing elements). Dagorkhon'yagahr and his Wolves will be another assault unit, on a flank. Summon a Totem as soon as possible to have an independant hero.

* An army of the Horde of the Boar : Warriors, Savage Warriors, Gar'worgar, Barran'yar, Ghost bears x2, Bold'dyrr.

Move you Warriors (Savage or not) and the Gar'worgar first, come after to finish the enemy with the Ghost Bears (time your summoning !).

* An army of the Horde of the Bear : Archers, Spearmen, Gar'worgar, Barran'yar, Charging Boars x2, Arr'ydwen.

Engage the enemy with the Spearmen and the Gar'worgar and charge with the Charging Boars in a second wave. The Archers are here to weaken some strong enemy.

* An army of the Church of Dorga : Archers, Savage Warriors, Gar'nar'og, Sagar'yanordas, Sinners, Death Guard, Car'nac.

Use the Sinners and the Savage Warriors in first line, followed by the Gar'nar'og and the Death Guard. The Archers sould be deployed on a flank. Don't forget the spells : you have 20 Spell Points...

XII - Playing against Thaïn

Thaïn units have low protection ad initiative values, so the best units to use against them are shooters or fighters with a boost to initiative and/or high armour. Even skirmishers will do a good job : their firing attacks coupled with their standard melee power make them more usefull than standard fighters. Cavaleries are also quite good as Thaïn units don't have any (except the Gar'arryds) and don't have pikemen, only spearmen. Take care of the Shamans : the Iron Hand spell is devastating against cavaleries.

One of the main challenges will be to fight the Gar'ydwens. Support your ranged attacks, use magic (paralyzing spells are good to slow the beasts, offensive spells are good to wound and kill them), get 1 or 2 Heroes to block them so you buy time for your units... take care of the mobility the Gar'ydwens have : they can go where they want to kill what they want.

Beware of the good Morale of Thaïn ! You won't make them flee easily, especially if they are impetuous. Try to move and maneuver to avoid the Obedience Tests : this will force the Shamans to cast "Fury" (and they won't do anything else this Turn... like summoning a Totem).

Don't forget you can dispell the Aspects if you play the Empire (Wizards Guild) or the Elves (Dyreas). The summonings will be another major threat : try to sneak and kill the Shaman. If you can recruit magical weapons that deals 2 or more damages, just do it. You can also summon (Isthak, Dark Elves). You can keep some archers in Hold order to prevent a Priest of Dorga to come too close and cast his spells - just count well the ranges.

At last, to fight a Veteran unit, or a unit reinforced by an Aspect, remember what are the special abilities of this unit. Don't rush blindy : try to move and maneuver so you can use the most adapted unit.

HAFE FUN :mrgreen:
Last edited by Arhnayel on Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:10 am, edited 6 times in total.
The Blessing of Stars' eternal
Although the Knight remains mortal.

User avatar
Arhnayel
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:11 am
Location: In the heart of Snow...
Contact:

Re: Thaïn - Strategies, tips, FAQ

Postby Arhnayel » Tue May 28, 2013 1:45 pm

Yeah thats is the only thing thats always works, but i dont think its funny to play always with Totems and so, just because there is no other way.....
Also really great works the summon ghost of Dorga (i love them).


The summonings are one of Thaïn advantages. Sometimes, they are the only way to counter the enemy. It depends of what you recruited (heroes, Gar'ydwens...).
The Blessing of Stars' eternal
Although the Knight remains mortal.

DerGevater
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:54 am

Re: Thaïn - Strategies, tips, FAQ

Postby DerGevater » Tue May 28, 2013 2:55 pm

Arhnayel wrote:The magical standard does not increase the difficulte of your own spells, only of the enemy's ones.


After the offical rules i got, it does!!!!!! maybe they changed it at the fanwork, but in this case that would be a good idea for the offical 3rd edition ;)

But a really nice guide so far.
I personall never tried with 2 Gar'worgar, but i will soon.
2 lvl shaman cost in my opinion to much (280) and so i play (if needed) the lvl 3 shaman (350, just 70 more), how are your experiences?
How are your experience with Tur-Gar'arryd?

Some notes comments from my side.

Also usefull as totem summoner is Marven, because she can cast evry totem.

I recently noted that Gar'arryds are a unit (after my last match) and so it should posible to cast amour on them!

I prefer bear clan, because i love Bold'dyrr, the thoughest hero of thain. Give him the magic armour, armour spell, bear strenght, make him frenzy and the enemy will have really troubles to kill him, a great fun, but stay away from casters :twisted:
(He has then about 9/11 Armour, a weapon skill of 5, +1 to melee and ini 4. Thats mean he strike with 20 and defend with 16!!!!)

Another Advantage of dorga is the REALLY great moral, both unit got 4/13.

User avatar
Arhnayel
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:11 am
Location: In the heart of Snow...
Contact:

Re: Thaïn - Strategies, tips, FAQ

Postby Arhnayel » Wed May 29, 2013 1:58 am

DerGevater wrote:But a really nice guide so far.

Thank you !

DerGevater wrote:After the offical rules i got, it does!!!!!! maybe they changed it at the fanwork, but in this case that would be a good idea for the offical 3rd edition ;)

Yes, you're right concerning the standard - and it makes this standard really uninteresting. I read again the rules yesterday evening and corrected my last post.

DerGevater wrote:2 lvl shaman cost in my opinion to much (280) and so i play (if needed) the lvl 3 shaman (350, just 70 more), how are your experiences?

I barely use him as we play in 1200 pts most of time and 350 pts for a Shaman is too much for those games. At 1500 pts and more, it is a good choice for expensive Aspects (like the Lion Agility which costs 8 SP). I take the lvl 2 when I want some specific spells or a strategy based on the two summonings (Totem first, Wild Spirits second and let's go in the middle of the fight !). Usually, I recruit a lvl 1, cast low-cost Aspects and rest 2 turns to cast Iron Hand and summon the Wild Spirits (even if sumoning the Totem is easier, I prefer having the unit : more attacks !).

DerGevater wrote:How are your experience with Tur-Gar'arryd?

I never used it. I find it less useful than the Gar'worgar (same cost) because it has not the great armour and its overrun attack is exactly the same.

DerGevater wrote:I prefer bear clan, because i love Bold'dyrr, the thoughest hero of thain. Give him the magic armour, armour spell, bear strenght, make him frenzy and the enemy will have really troubles to kill him, a great fun, but stay away from casters :twisted:
(He has then about 9/11 Armour, a weapon skill of 5, +1 to melee and ini 4. Thats mean he strike with 20 and defend with 16!!!!)

:D personally, I never boost the strongest heroes that much. I find more useful to boost "basic" troops and heroes to have more dangerous threats instead of one immortal-super-hero : the enemy will have many problems to deal with and he can't deal with everything. A lone summoning (Pain Demons, Elementals, Insect Swarms...), simple damage spells (Fireballs, Lightining Strike, Clanngett's Hammer etc.) or spells like Magical Roots can destroy / immobilize the super-hero too easily... making it useless.
The Blessing of Stars' eternal
Although the Knight remains mortal.

User avatar
Arhnayel
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:11 am
Location: In the heart of Snow...
Contact:

Re: Thaïn - Strategies, tips, FAQ

Postby Arhnayel » Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:11 am

Update ! The section XII - Playing against Thaïn is now complete.
The Blessing of Stars' eternal
Although the Knight remains mortal.


Return to “Rules”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest